Yeah, yeah keep throwing irrelevant numbers at us... where are the vapers that converted to smoking?

After watching the FBI show I wrote about yesterday on NRK (Norwegian government-owned radio and television public broadcasting company) web-tv I read the article mentioned at the end of the show here: http://www.nrk.no/livsstil/frykter-e-sigarettens-pavirkning-1.11502043. (Sorry about all the Norwegian articles guys, hope the google translation is not too bad).

Again I'm baffled by the fact that the Cancer Society seems to be so opposed to e-cigarettes. I really struggle to see why. And to add to that, they keep throwing irrelevant numbers at us. Again it's this new american study that they claim supports the theory that vaping is a gateway to smoking. Well allow me to explain once again why these numbers are at best irrelevant. This is what the "Facts"-box on the side says (I've changed the order here to make things a bit clearer):

• 1379 Americans, average age of 24, smokers, non-smokers and former smokers were followed for a year.
• 7.4% of the ones that hadn't already tried e-cigarettes tried them this year. - What does this really mean? Well, it says nothing about if these were former smokers, smokers or non-smokers. It is hence completely irrelevant and does not support the conclusion at all.
• 21% of the smokers, 11.9% of former smokers and 2.9% of the non-smokers had tried e-cigarettes during that year. - For the smokers this is great, they are trying to quit, for the former smokers it probably prevented a relapse to smoking and for the non-smokers... well it only says they tried it, not that they kept on doing it. I myself have a lot of friends, non-smokers, that have tried my e-cigarettes once or twice. Actually most of my non-smoking friends have, so they would have had to answer yes on this as well. To be honest I'm surprised the number is that low. But as you can see, it gives us no indication on vaping being a gateway to smoking. It's completely irrelevant.
• According to the scientists that did the study, there are indications that the belief that e-cigarettes are less harmful than normal cigarettes can get more young adults to try them. - I actually got to agree with this, but this has nothing to do with the numbers they present. And most of these are probably smokers, former smokers or people who would be tempted to try real cigarettes. This is just common sense. If you believe there is a less harmful alternative to cigarettes you would be pretty stupid not to try it wouldn't you? And IF some of these actually are people who wouldn't have taken up regular smoking, but take up e-cigarettes anyway, WHY on earth would they switch to smoking afterwards. There are certainly NO numbers here supporting that. 

So, why do some people use these numbers as proof that vaping is a gateway to smoking? Wouldn't it be better to refer to a study of vapers who have never smoked for a year and count how many of those that take up smoking? Well, of course this study doesn't exist... you'd have a hard enough time finding enough never-smoking vapers. If you did however I think counting to 0 should be pretty easy. Actually, if someone comes up with ONE vaper who has never smoked a cigarette before starting to vape, and then becomes a regular smoker, I'll eat all my hats, smoke my socks and put a pink background on this blog for a month.

Then there is this other sidebar with a list of potentially carcinogenic substances found in e-cigarettes. The source of this information is given to be the french consumer magazine "60 millions de consommateurs". Well, this so called scientific research has been ripped apart by Dr Farsalinos so I'm just going to give you the a couple of links so you can see for yourself. His analysis of the original article here: http://ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/128-60-millions-de-consommateurs, and another answer after they tried to "clarify" what they really ment: http://ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/131-basic-science-principles-60-millions-de-consommateurs3. I don't really think I need to comment on that further.

Now I do understand why big tobacco and big pharma would try to spread fear and loathing in this matter, and I do have a sneaking suspicion where funding for some of this "research" can be traced back to. But what I don't understand is why the Cancer Society does it. Why do they keep on ignoring the fact that there IS a lot of science that shows e-cigarettes could dramatically reduce the number of new cancer patients? They keep on saying that this research just doesn't exist. But apparently they do search for studies on e-cigarettes, as they seem to find the reports that conclude e-cigarettes are some kind of new devilry that we need to stop before it's to late. Don't they have the same version of Google that I have?

Some comments on last night e-cig coverage on FBI (Norwegian consumer/science TV show)

Coffee-caramel dripping... mmm

Last night FBI, a Norwegian consumer/science TV show, was all about e-cigarettes. Norwegian readers can see the show here: http://tv.nrk.no/serie/forbrukerinspektoerene/mdhp11000514/29-01-2014 (might work in Sweden and Denmark as well). There were interviews with members of Norsk Dampselskap, a government official, a representative from the Norwegian Cancer society, a chemistry professor and Karl Erik Lund from SIRUS. I think the guys from Norsk Dampselskap (Are Sakarias Grønsund, Ramzy Zaher and Fredrick Skauge) did a fantastic job presenting the e-cigarettes, explaining what it is and telling the viewers about their own experience with them. They even managed to give the interviewer a proper cough attack with a dripper and some coffee-caramel-liquid. Good job :)

The government official and the representative from the Cancer society were sceptical and presented the gateway argument (as usual). They keep referring to some reports from the USA that shows an increasing number of teens experimenting with e-cigarettes. It seems like a lot of sceptics and anti-e-cig-people have picked up this report and keep on referring to it. I assume this is the report in question: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6235a6.htm. Well, while I do believe the data collected in this study is probably real, the conclusion that e-cigarettes are a gateway to smoking is pulled out of thin air. There is nothing in this data that would indicate that. It reports how many have tried e-cigarettes, how many are using them on a regular basis, and how many of these that also smokes traditional cigarettes, but there is no evidence that someone has actually moved from e-cigarettes to normal cigarettes. Actually the fact that only 7.2% of the high school students have experimented (tried at least once) with e-cigarettes, means that 92.8% of these are already smokers, probably looking for a way to quit. Among high school student e-cig users 80.5% are also smoking, which means, even if we assume ALL the 7.2% that had experimented (and never smoked cigarettes) are also current users (the study doesn't say anything about this), there is 12.3% of the smokers that has managed to quit smoking by using e-cigarettes. As current e-cigarette users is 2.8% and current "double users" are 2.2% that means only 0.6% are pure e-cig-users, which is not very high given that 10% have tried them. And finally these 0.6% might even be smokers that has made the switch, the study says nothing about this either. So if you really look into what this data means I'd say they give NO evidence of e-cigarettes being a gateway to smoking, but rather that non-smokers have very little interest in e-cigarettes. The way these data is presented I think is just horrible, it's presented as a bunch of numbers in a quite confusing manner and then only the data that supports whatever they WANT to find is pointed out to support their case. This study shows that more teens are experimenting with e-cigarettes... period. Not really breaking news for a new product like that currently is on the edge of the law. In fact, try legalizing it, I bet you my kidney this number will drop. Guess this is what "scientists" do when they start to suspect they might have been wrong all the time, they have to save their own ass right? I mean, you got to ask yourself, as Karl Erik Lund does as well, WHY would someone choose a product that kills half of it's users when they are already using a product with the same function that has not been the cause of a single death?

The next part of the show was with the chemistry professor, Einar Uggerud. He kind of confirmed that nicotine and the PG was pretty harmless. The same thing with all the other ingredients he read from an e-liquid bottle. BUT, he also says we really don't know what substances are created when we vaporize these ingredients, and that they might cause cancer. So ... kind of mixed feelings about what he says. We do have a lot of science around what's actually in the vapor as well, for instance dr. Farsalinos work (http://ecigarette-research.com), so mr. Uggerud might be a bit uninformed here. But, I agree there might be some less serious manufacturers as well, so we should get some more control in this area.

Finally, Karl Erik Lund made some really good points at the end of the show worth mentioning. First of all, and this is a good one, he says it's a paradox that it is legal here in Norway to sell e-liquid without nicotine. It's proven that the nicotine is not the dangerous substance in these liquids, but it's in the flavouring some of the potentially dangerous substances might be. So Lund believes we should regulate the e-liquids in the same way that the Norwegian Food Safety Authority regulates for example cosmetics. They look at whats in it, gets rid of the junk and leaves us with safe and good products on the market. When asked about if the e-cigarette can help people stop smoking he confirms that science supports this, but also makes a point that the really big gain here is that future generations can choose a less dangerous product than the conventional cigarettes, that will give them the same stimuli and the same symbolic effect. He says that the government's wish for a smoke free society, in his opinion, is pure utopia.

In conclusion I think this show will tempt a lot of the smokers who watched to try e-cigarettes. There is no doubt some misinformation from the interviewed sceptics that might scare some, but all in all I think Lund and the members of the Norsk Dampselskap did a great job and sounded much more serious and not driven by fear like the others. Good job guys.

Ramzy Zaher, Fredrick Skauge and Are Sakarias Grønsund explaining how it all works.

Juice review: Steam Sauce - Airship by ePipeMods

I love the Pipe Sauce range from ePipeMods, especially the Long Bottom Leaf. It has been a favourite and a juice I've always come back to since I first tried it late 2012. Now I was going to order some more LBL and I saw that ePipemods has introduced a new range of non-tobacco juices, the Steam Sauce range, with cool sounding names like Airship, Chrononaut and Clockwerk. So I decided to try out one of these and why not just start at the top of the list with Airship? I didn't see why not so I ordered some, and yesterday it arrived together with my LBL.

I had high expectations for this juice as the Pipe Sauces are totally my cup of tea, so I was really looking forward to trying out their take on non-tobacco juices as well. I really like the design of the labelling, and it comes in a glass bottle with a pipette, which gives you a feeling this is quality. So today I recoiled my Hellfire Dripper (4 wraps of .25, 3mm silica wick, pretty hot setup, not really sure about the ohms) and filled my U-can.

First of all, when you open the bottle, the smell of this juice is lovely. I think ePipeMods is spot on in their own description: A delightful Strawberry-Kiwi mix with just a hint of menthol. Well, for the smell not that much menthol, but when you vape it it is exactly what they say it is. Reminds me of a Snapple Strawberry Kiwi drink that's really good. It's sweet but not too sweet and the menthol gives it a nice cooling touch. It's not much menthol, just a hint to give it that cooling sensation. All in all a well balanced, fresh and very natural juice. I can easily recommend this and I look forward to trying out some of the other juices in the range. The Transdimensional looks tempting: The Marty McFly of eliquids; a grape so intense, it exists in multiple dimensions.

The Norwegian Minister of Health and Care Services says he will consider repealing the ban on e-cigarettes

Bent Høie, Minister of Health and Care Services

The new, well kind of new, Norwegian Government seems to have an agenda of removing old, meaningless laws since they took over charge in October 2013. Here in Norway we have a tradition of banning whatever someone thing might be kind of dangerous for some people. I mean ... did you know skateboarding was illegal in Norway from 1978 to 1989? That's pretty much my whole childhood. Since the new government took over there has been debates on revoking the bans on professional boxing, gambling and Segway(!). So, I thought it was worth checking out if they had any plans on removing the e-cig ban.

In an article in Aftenposten (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/politikk/Helseministeren-vurderer-Ae-sigaretter-7391529.html#.UueSLfE1i2N) on the 1st of December, the Minister of Health and Care Services, Bent Høie, says he is open to consider the repealing the ban. He was asked by a member of the opposition, Snorre Valen, about this during a parliamentary question hour and his answer was that (of course) we still don't know the long term effects of vaping, but he also says that the Health and Social committee believes the e-cigarette will save more lives than it takes. Another member of Høie's party (Høyre) says he wants to repeal the ban and that it is completely illogical that normal cigarettes are legal and e-cigarettes is not. He calls for regulation to ensure safety but do not know how this should be done yet. He also speaks about Big Pharma and Big Tobacco trying to stop their new competitor with all kinds of means so he obviously has been following the development in the EU and the debate, and is able to see what is happening and who is behind what to some extent. I think this looks kind of promising. For once I actually agree with Høie and his party. And that doesn't happen very often. His views on the abortion debate that is kind of loud here in Norway at the moment is a large step back in my opinion.

Snorre Valen, the politician that asked Høie about this in the first place has been pictured vaping in the media and is advocating for e-cigs at least a couple of times lately. Lets hope he keeps up the good work. He also plays in a couple of cool bands by the way. Go Snorre!

The Norwegian Heart and Lung Patient Organization (LHL) wants to ban smoking

 According to an article on vg.no (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10120943 ), one of Norway's largest newspapers, LHL - The Norwegian Heart and Lung Patient Organization wants to ban the import and sales of smoking tobacco and cigarettes. "Smoking kills, now we have to face the consequences" says Frode Jahren, General Secretary of LHL. He calls for tougher and more effective measures in the fight against smoking. He asks the current government to come up with a policy on this, saying that they do not have that right now. In that I kind of agree, I don't think the government really has a clear policy on how to handle the smoking problem, and they are kind of vague when it comes to e-cigarettes. This is not that strange at the moment to be honest... they have different organizations funded by the government saying totally different things, even talking each other down. On one side have SIRUS, that I've written a lot about earlier, that urges a repeal of the ban, and on the other side you have The Cancer registry of Norway, also government funded (but also has some fishy ties to Big Pharma in my opinion) that are sceptical. They wants to get rid of nicotine all together and urges people to look into who's funding the research done on the matter, and listen to the medical, chemical and biological expertise rather than the behavioural scientists at SIRUS. To me that sounds a bit like grabbing a shotgun and shoot one-self in both legs, when it comes from an organization that has been under the loop for corruption some years ago when making a huge deal with Pharma giant Merck for the cervical cancer vaccine (that in it self is debated). Well, I do hope the politicians look into where the information comes from when they finally decide. But anyway... back to LHL :)

In December last year, one of the more active members (good work Thomas) of Norsk Dampselskap (the Norwegian union of vapers) presented one of Karl Erik Lunds article to LHL on Facebook, urging them to recommend e-cigarettes. This was their answer: "As of now it is not legal to import new tobacco- and nicotine-products. Because it's uncertain to what degree e-cigarettes causes intake of other toxins, we will not recommend the use at the present time". However, they say they will do a thorough evaluation of this some time after Christmas. I've written an email asking what their position on the matter is now. I don't expect them to have come to a conclusion yet, but I hope that if more people ask about this they might come up with something soon.